Photo by Heather Clark

Tami Carswell discusses training, diet, fighting and women's MMA with Julie.

WF: What is going on in your life right now?

JK: Right now I am training every day, getting ready for The Ultimate Women’s Challenge Show.  The real challenge right now is to keep my body in shape and ready for when we start shooting. We don’t know when that will be. It can start in a few days or a few weeks. We know we will be fighting on the show, but we don’t know when or who we will be fighting. There will be 16 fighters on the show: eight 135 pound fighters and eight 125 pound fighters. Those that fight till the end will be the best in that class. The show will be aired on an NBC affiliated network.   

WF: When did you decide you wanted to fight and why?

JK: I was always into martial arts from about four or five years old. The taekwondo school that I received my third degree black belt at really stressed cross training. There was Muay Thai and Eric Paulson’s combat submission wrestling; both of which I liked better. I went to see a Hook N Shoot MMA show and was inspired by Aaron Riley. I loved his heart and the way he fought. A friend of mine, who was involved with Hook N Shoot, gave me a DVD of female fighters. Debi Purcell was on there and I just absolutely fell in love with the art. I was like, “I can do that; I can be like that.” What’s ironic is when I moved to Jackson’s almost three years ago, Aaron Riley showed up at the gym and now trains at the gym. It’s kind of cool how everything goes full circle and you end up training with the people who inspired you. I did a couple of kickboxing smokers and then I did a pro MMA fight. At that time there was no amateur female MMA scene, so I just jumped right in because I really wanted to fight. It was on the Hook N Shoot show, and I won by a second round arm bar. It is another full circle story because it was against a very tough boxer named Terri Blair who is rated quite highly in boxing. It’s crazy what a small world combat sports is because when I first came to Jackson’s I mentioned to Holly Holm, one of the premiere boxers in the world here, that my first MMA fight was with Terri. It turns out that her first boxing fight was also against Terri. It’s just crazy the coincidences that happen in life and the bonds you actually form in such a small community. Everyone ends up knowing each other. I lost my next two fights against the same woman. I learned two things: one, I should not be fighting at 155 pounds; and two, I knew nothing of jiu-jitsu. I turned to training more in jiu-jitsu after that, and then met Greg Jackson at a Gina Carano fight show.  

WF: What is your typical training regime when you are preparing for a fight?

JK: It is different now from when I am training for a fight because I can’t restrict my diet and eat super-cutting foods like when I train for a fight. I am absolutely addicted to conditioning right now. In the morning I work for Greg and I am usually at the gym at seven-seven thirty. I do office work; and the first class, the pro fighter’s class, starts at ten thirty and is usually an hour and a half. I take a lunch break and then do 45 minutes of conditioning. The program is pretty intense; it was developed by Jonathan Chaimberg. Later on I normally either do a one-on-one session with my kickboxing coach, an MMA session with Greg, some light rolling, or I will just run on the treadmill. I don’t run as much as I used to because I am gearing my training more towards sprints. I am at home usually by seven or eight o’clock and then it is TV-watching time.

WF: How often do you train? Do you take any days off?

JK: When I am training for a fight, I have to taper away from all the conditioning and do long runs. I can do sprints, pull-ups, push-ups and stuff, but I can’t lift weights. Every time I pick up a weight, I put on a pound. To make sure my body is going to make weight, along with my running, I usually do two hard sessions a day. Generally I take Sundays off, and Saturdays are running and conditioning days-you just get to sleep in more. I usually take a day off during the week, like a Wednesday, just to let my body recover. I really try to listen to my body because I want another ten years of this sport. If I feel over-trained, I speak with my coach and get a massage.  If I am not recovering, I take a day off and chill-out. It’s hard because I work at the gym; I get that exercise anxiety. I will be like, “I love that move and want to work out,” or, “I want to get a six pack now.” A lot of times my coach has to tell me to sit down and shut up. 

WF: What is your training diet like?

JK:  My normal diet? Well I am a sugarholic. I love sugar, but you can’t eat junk food like that and feel good while you are training. So my diet is really protein-heavy with a lot of vegetables. I get in different moods-like I love sweet potatoes so much that I have to have one with every meal. Right now it is asparagus. In the morning I like to have oatmeal because I think it is like the best food ever. At lunch I have some kind of salad thing with a protein. At dinner I have a big protein meal with veggies. When I am cutting weight, I don’t put any salt on it. I am a huge fan of beer. There is some ritual about it. You come home after a day of hard training and it relaxes you. I have gotten used to drinking less beer, and when it comes to fight time, I am off of alcohol and sweets for at least six weeks. Lately I have been drinking Perrier. It doesn’t have the same effect, but it’s got the bubbles.

WF: What other interests outside of fighting are you pursuing in your life?

JK: I am very fortunate to have a job that puts me in fighting all the time. I understand what’s going on with the inner workings of our gym and I meet a lot of interesting people. Unfortunately I also watch a lot of reality TV. It’s sort of embarrassing. My favorite used to be America’s Next Top Model and now it is all those real housewives shows. They are all just yelling at each other and there’s drama. It’s like eating candy-it’s all fake and bright-colored. You know how you put kids in front of a Barney show? It’s like a big ol’ Barney show. You sit there and veg out. You can think of whatever you want to and these very happy rich things are going on on-screen. You’re like, “wow that is so cool.” That’s my take on it. It’s my guilty secret. I read a lot of books and I love the zoo. I love the animals. I am always over there after practice. I love the polar bears, and the gorillas are amazing. When I am finished with fighting, I want to do one of those African safari trek things and see gorillas in their natural environments. I think that would be amazing   I saw the movie Julie Julia, so now I am reading the Julia Child’s book, My Life In France. I actually love the book, The Fight, by Norman Mailer. He captures a lot of the spirit of what we do, even though it is boxing. I am also a huge fan of Hemingway. The Sun Also Rises is probably my favorite book.   

WF: How has your training with Greg Jackson given you a leg up on your opponents?

JK: Well the technique is cutting edge, but the real power in it is that sense of team, that training of the mind and of the heart. We really really focus on mental training and on not breaking. You put a line in the sand and that’s as far as you can go and we just push that line farther and farther. It is amazing-like the work we do in the mountains-sprinting and just training together. When you have a family, a strong place where you come from, it makes you a stronger person in general. It is really important as a fighter-if you have a loss-that you have a family to return to that will pick you up, and that you don’t feel bad about yourself. You just get right back to training. Greg is really good at getting the best out of every fighter. Not changing them to be a certain way but making them come up to the level that they are supposed to be at. I can’t say enough about the training there.

WF: How has each of the members of your team at Jackson’s influenced you?

JK: Each person brings a different thing to it. Rashad is incredibly intelligent and he is enthusiastic. Joe Stevenson brings so much positivity; I mean when he comes into the room, a light goes on. He has a smile on and he just brings everyone together training-wise. When I first came to the gym, I remember being on the mountain and running sprints for the first time. I fell down and Donald Cerrone picked me up, put me on my feet, and said, “Keep running.” It’s just stuff like that. You see these people fighting for world titles, and you say, “That was the person who picked me up and put me back on my feet.” I couldn’t possibly go into all the details of what each guy has done for me. Damacio Page has been like a brother to me since I joined the team. I mean he has had my back, so I see him as my brother. Michelle Waterson, another person on the team, she is like my baby sister on the team. I have got that girl’s back. People think you can’t be a model and a good fighter. Well, she’s a model and she is a good fighter. She changed my mind about that. She brings it in the gym when she trains. Greg Jackson-I can’t say enough about him; I mean he made me realize that I was a good fighter. As many fights as I had when I came to the gym-and to have a world famous coach tell you you can go to the top-that just cements something in your heart. It makes it exciting to learn. That’s something you have to hold on to your whole life, that excitement to learn, you know, that joy of learning. When you are training with people like a family, and with coaches who bring you up, there are no words to describe how amazing it is.  

WF: Do you feel like some aspects of fighting came more naturally to you than others?

JK: My taekwondo background made me happy to be on my feet.  I don’t like getting punched in the face in practice; I’m like, “God why does he keep hitting me? That’s awful.” But in a fight I love it. Grappling was a really big obstacle for me. When I was 18 years old I went to a grappling seminar. I thought it was the stupidest thing I had ever seen in my life. I can’t believe how much I love it now. It took me years to understand the power of grappling and the art of it.  What really came natural to me was kind of bully-fighting; you know, getting in their faces, you know, squeezing them and shoving them around a bit.  That part of my game I don’t have to train as much.

WF: How have you evolved as a fighter?  What skills have you really honed?

JK: Confidence, first of all, has really been the key for me: growing confidence in myself as a fighter. I think it is huge. It’s something you really have to work on. Staying on my feet; I have better takedown defense. I can dictate the pace of the fight better and decide where I’m going to take them down. I understand a little bit more about fighting: you don’t have to just stay in the pocket and just trade and trade and trade. Now I understand how you can enter in and leave. You can enter in and stay in the pocket and trade and move your head. I have gotten tighter. My horizons have expanded as a fighter in terms of what I hope to be able to do and what I am able to do. I hope to be an incredible wrestler someday, and I hope to be an incredible submission specialist instead of just being resigned to being a bully-fighter. I can think-you know-that I can do this someday. I can see it in myself.

WF: What has been the toughest fight of your career?

JK: Probably the [Tara] LaRosa or [Gina] Carano. Tara LaRosa I would say. That was a mentally tough fight for me. I was having a lot of personal drama at the time. With the Carano fight I was one hundred percent sure I was going to win. The fight wasn’t the hard part; it was the coming back part that was really the hard part for me because I had to go to work the very next day. I just fought on national television and I am going to work with two black eyes. It was a complete let down. That is really when I got saved, when coach got in touch with me, because otherwise I would have been like, “great, you know, I should retire. That was the moment of my career and I blew it.” It was a door opening; I just had to realize it was a door opening. I always think that my toughest fights are going to be in front of me. I have not begun to scratch the surface. There is feeling you get in a fight, I mean I don’t think I have ever hated an opponent before. I haven’t talked to Gina since that fight, but she is totally in my heart from that fight. We went to war. I am so happy for her right now. She is just one of the greatest people ever. She has done so much for the sport. I have nothing but gratitude for her. The war we had brought me to a new level.  LaRosa…we went to war. I mean she beat the hell out of me. It was three rounds of toe-to-toe and just going and going. I mean those are the fights you just…you learn to love the person in the process. You grow together. You know…you hit someone with all you’ve got and they don’t go down, then they hit you with all they’ve got. There is no sport except for combat sports that just touch on humanity on the weirdest level, on our basic needs as people. I think there is a huge need for fighting in our culture

WF: Describe some of your biggest obstacles or challenges in your career.

JK: Envy and jealousy of other fighters who could quote, end quote ‘make it,’ while I was working a few jobs and struggling getting my fighting in on the side and treating it like a hobby. I just had no avenues to do it. I would just take fights and squeeze in training whenever I could. I was so jealous; I would watch fighters and athletes who could spend hours and hours of training each day and really reach their potential in their bodies and their minds. For me I was working waiting tables, and waiting to be able to train. Then I would have to get up and go to work again.  I landed on my feet somehow. I am able to put the time in and treat myself as a professional fighter: eat the way I am supposed to, train the way I am supposed, and train my mind the way I am supposed to. My heart is content now; I am more settled and satisfied with myself as a human being.  I was meant to be a fighter and when I found it and was able to dedicate myself to it at the extent that I was supposed to…my heart is satisfied now. There are a lot of female fighters out there who don’t get to dedicate the time that I get to and they don’t get to be around it. I understand how lucky I am now that I have so much exposure to the thing that I love the most.  

WF: What inspires you?

JK: I go to the gym and I am inspired. I will see how Holly throws her left hand and will think, “That is amazing,” or I will see how Keith Jardine will just do another set of things that’s amazing. That is so inspiring…the people that I work with. The people at the gym inspire me. There are these beautiful mountains outside my door. Albuquerque is just gorgeous. Going to the zoo and seeing the gorilla exhibit…I just think I want to work harder so I can go see them on an excursion

WF: What advice would you give to female fighters starting out their careers?

JK: You have to have a back-up because if you get hurt you want to have health insurance and be able to take care of yourself so you can get back to training. Just hold onto it. Don’t give in to anyone.  It really helps to have a support system around you. Surround yourself with people who pick you up when you fall. Don’t get caught up in the negativity and what other people say about you. Remember that you are doing this for yourself. It’s your dream. It’s not anyone else’s. Even if you lose 14 fights in a row…if you love what you are doing just keep doing it.

WF: What do you want to do next in your fighting career?

JK: The Albuquerque fight scene is just so supportive of female fighters. I want to fight here in Albuquerque a lot. I want to fight on the big show again, whether it’s Strikeforce or Bellator…somewhere where you get more national recognition. I would also like to try boxing for a little bit to see if I have got it. I want to fight Abu Dabi someday. At some point I am going to be able to hit every one of those land marks. 

WF: What are your thoughts on the future of the women’s MMA division?

JK: I think it is going to continue to grow stronger.  Even when female fighters are not featured in the big show, female fighters are featured more and more in the regional shows. We are unstoppable and just getting better and better. We have come a long way. We just need to prove there are a lot of us out there and that we are very very competitive.

Interview by Tami Carswell